The big interview: Dr Iván Saldaña

Dr Iván Saldaña is a Jalisco native. Growing up in one of Mexico’s most biodiverse regions (home to agave among other things), the good doctor developed a deep curiosity about Mexico’s natural environment. His interest in biology continued at my alma mater, the University of Sussex, England, where he earned a PhD in biology and specialized in agave species.

His first foray into drinks was with Pernod Ricard in research and development, quality, and environmental impact initiatives. He then partnered with Moises Guindi and Daniel Schneeweiss, founders of Tequila Milagro, to start Casa Lumbre in 2011. Since then, Dr. Saldaña has led the launch of more than 60 products in virtually every spirit category, including Montelobos Mezcal in 2011, Ancho Reyes in 2013, Abasolo Ancestral Corn Whisky and Nixta Licor de Elote in 2020, Sotol Nocheluna in 2022, Alma Finca and Almave Ámbar Distilled Non-Alcoholic Blue Agave Spirit in 2023.

Dr Saldaña has been recognized as one of the 10 most important entrepreneurs in Mexico by Expansion magazine and CNN (2013), the 100 most creative Mexicans in the World by Forbes Magazine (2023) and 100 Latin American most relevant innovators by Bloomberg (2023). His expertise has been sought by Tales of the Cocktail, London Cocktail Week, Imbibe Live London, and the World Spirit Conference in Scotland, plus he still contributes to scientific papers about agave and its distillates. He’s even found time to author the book Anatomy of Mezcal (2013). 

But despite being Mexico’s busiest drinks authority, Dr Saldaña was generous enough to sit down and talk about this remarkable career to date.

We cover the culture of Mexican whisky, discuss how mezcal and Tequila evolve, and what it’s like to work with Lewis Hamilton and Lenny Kravitz. 

The big interview: Dr Iván Saldaña

Question: How has your background in biology defined your career? Usually, we talk about chemistry in drinks production. 

Answer: “It provides me with a unique perspective. Usually, people study brewing or are knowledgeable about a specific process. My obsession is with raw materials. I believe the spirit is as good as the raw material, and that the job of the maker is to trap the extraordinary things of that raw material in the liquid. You see master distillers who are obsessed with yeast. I am the kind of guy who thinks that secondary, although some people will tell you it’s the cornerstone of craft. Yeast becomes very relevant when you have a standardised raw material, like a boring grain. But my products and most of the products that I’m working on are related to what the raw material can bring. Yeast plays a role, but there’s so much to gain from the raw material. Agave is so interesting because it’s not a grain or a fruit, it’s like a gigantic herb that gives sugar. You’re making alcohol from that sugar but at the same time you’re trapping all these essential oils and waxes, it’s very complex. Whereas, in a gin or a whisky, you tend to have a boring alcohol and then you are flavouring it utilising the qualities of alcohol as a solvent to extract things out of whatever ingredient you have decided to add”. 

“We have a lab, not different to really anything you have seen. Right now we are hoping to refurbish or move as our space is small. I have stills of different sizes, I can distil in copper, I can distil in glass… We look at how the different shapes and materials affect distillation, for example. We have fridges and things of different temperatures so we can ferment. Then we have equipment to measure sugar, alcohol, and organic acids, to centrifuge, all of that is the standard. It’s like a more sophisticated kitchen”. 

Q: So does all the inspiration for products start with the raw material?

A: “Let’s use a product for an example, say Alma Finca, our orange liqueur from Yucatán. When I decided to explore what the bitter orange could bring to the spirits it was inevitable to make an orange liquor. Citrus is not a natural flora for Mexico, but our entire gastronomy is linked to the acidity world. Every region requires some element that plays around with acidity like fruit vinegar in Europe. In Asia, they produce and ferment soy sauce, an acidic version of beans, or rice vinegar. In Mexico, we fell in love with limes. It’s been there since 500 years ago when the Spanish brought it from the south of Spain. The second route of the citrus was everything from Asia, also through the Spaniards via The Philippines. Yucatán is a state with more people speaking Mayan and the most traditional dishes from the pre-historic Spanish culture are totally blended with citrus. They used to use pineapple vinegar and pineapple as a source of acidity and they replaced it with citrus. This storytelling helps me to build the elements of why the world deserves a spirit only out of Yucatán”. 

Q: Is it important to you that these stories are Mexican?

A: “People forget Mexico was the most globalised place in the world 500 years ago. Coffee, palm trees, sugarcane. All of that wasn’t existing in the Americas. Mexico now owns a lot of that for itself. Nobody would question a lime you put in a Margarita is Mexican, right? I think we are the result of a very global experience. Most people in the business of selling Tequila or mezcal neglect in a very nationalistic way how global the products are that we are selling. Those stories are what I like to bring. I think people don’t just drink by putting a liquid in their mouth, but by imagining things, discovering stories and feeling related to them, and understanding the cultural relevance of what they are enjoying. I’ve done this with ancestral corn in whisky, I’ve done this with chillis. I’m trying to share the richness of the spirit world in Mexico”. 

Q: Is it a different process when the product is non-alc, like Almave?

A: “With Almave it’s very exciting to allow the richness of the agave flavours to exist in a different form, something that wasn’t fermented, but distilled. It’s been a very nice exploration because it’s showing that whoever is doing non-alcs has to take a little bit more care of trying to bring real raw materials into that, just the same as we do with spirits. We cannot diminish the standards of the quality of the raw materials when we are doing non-alcs. The same in the bar. Bartenders cannot have a mocktail menu with very horrendous and terrible things to offer people. They should be showing the same craft, and change the idea that their job is to mix alcohol, no they are in the business of bringing sensorial experiences to others”.

“That’s what we need to evolve to because the world is becoming more sober, little by little. It’s good for your health, it allows a more flexible life and decisions, next day you can still have your swim or your run… perhaps you have a medical condition but you want to be in that space and share with others. We are in a moment of a lot of evolution of redefining the limits in the making of drinks or in the preparation of drinks, in the bartending arena”. 

Q: What did Lewis Hamilton bring to Almave?

A: “Having Lewis Hamilton as a partner is a blessing. Almave wouldn’t exist without Lewis asking for it. I’m very thankful for him. When he used to drink, the flavour he used to love was the flavour of agave. By proposing to do this, I got the opportunity to expand my own personal definition of who I am professionally. It’s beautiful. Almave wouldn’t exist without Lewis’ desire to bring something to the world that is beyond proof”. 

Q: Agave sourcing and supply is a concern for some right now. Do you share that view? 

A: “We should start looking more at the implications of mezcal and Tequila making. The norm has always been to focus on the definitions or the ways of production, but not for example, if you want to be a Tequila you have to prove you’re not polluting. If you want to make mezcal you have to prove that your agaves are coming from a sustainable source”. 

Q: You have concerns regarding the use of wild agave in mezcal production?

A: “A lot of producers have been using wild agaves for making mezcals and that has been a very damaging practice. Right now the population is diminishing at such great numbers, mostly in the South of Mexico in Oaxaca in particular, brands that have an economic interest in keeping their expressions out there are planting. But for 20 years they were not caring at all. I have never used wild agaves. My first brand was launched in 2011 and we have a relationship with growing the raw materials, including Tobala, we were one of the first brands to dedicate their fortune to planting. Now we have an agronomical company within Casa Lumbre, growing agaves for the brands I produce but now we are offering this to other companies too”. 

Q: If the industry doesn’t keep growing in popularity, a damaging agave surplus could arise too.

A: “I think there’s a lot of available land to grow healthy, respectful for environment agave out there but people have to start doing it in a more clean way, not using herbicides. The information is out there and the problem is that planting agave is an expensive thing. Historically the farmers and the producers haven’t been aligned, that’s why you have all these price changes that are very dramatic”. 

Q: Does the evolution of mezcal and Tequila need to come from legislation then?

A: “We have to tighten the rules for what is really important. Which is the impact we have on the land and the people. And to soften other very ridiculous things. Mezcal is a word that means cooked agave, and it’s the same like wine, it’s a word that refers to the product. At some point, Tequila developed its denomination of origin (DO) and then mezcal did the same but it’s a nonsense DO. It’s like trying to create a DO for wine, but it is made everywhere. The DO for mezcal is the biggest in the world, it’s half the size of Europe, it’s ridiculous. Instead, we should have a regulation that proves what mezcal is as a product and then if people want to organise themselves to have a particular expression that is linked to the place of origin, they can create a DO of that particular product. That’s the direction mezcal should take. We have to be more liberal in the right for everyone to make mezcal and call it as it should be called, mezcal, not agave distillates all that bullshit, and then whatever producers of certain towns or states who want to have a DO they can attain it. So you can have Mezcal de Oaxaca, which requires you to meet x, y, z, like a Bordeaux wine. The DO will have some sense. It means something. Right now it’s meaningless”. 

Q: What are the regulating bodies getting wrong right now?

“There is a little hypocrisy with the bodies responsible for the production of products, the Tequila Regulatory Council (CRT) and the Mezcal Regulatory Council (CRM). For example, the law of mezcal says you need to use direct-fire stills. You have to use fire. In rural areas, that means wood as a fuel. But the law doesn’t say that if you cannot demonstrate your wood is coming from a sustainable source, you can’t call it mezcal. DOs are there to enlarge categories, but also to protect and enrich a particular product linked to a particular region. The goal, in theory, is to bring some sort of standard that allows great development of the region, but they are not doing that. They are just focused on the product”. 

“Then they are focused on the methanol content in mezcal, it has to be 300 milligrams per 100ml of alcohol. In Europe, it’s 3000 for fruit brandies. Why are we restricting ourselves? All because someone with power, who is mostly selling Tequila, at some point decided that and that is making mezcal producers unable to certify the product. Unless they cheat, so they’re promoting cheating, because it’s impossible to have eyes on this 24/7. I’m not saying they’re bad or evil. I’m saying it should evolve. For example, in the US there’s a big movement for additive-free Tequila, which in my opinion should be additive-transparency, not additive-free. There’s nothing wrong with adding things, let’s not be puritans because things could enhance the experience to a very creative, wonderful thing. But tell the story of that. Don’t try to sell people the idea of additive-freeness when it is not.”

Q: What about creating a story from scratch, you’re attempting to define a Mexican whisky identity with Abasolo.

A: “Why does Mexico deserve to have whisky? Because we have ancestral corn and a corn that is flavourful. Mexico has still varieties of corn that were selected for their flavour. In many places in the world, it was used to feed cattle or create high-fructose syrup or biofuel. Corn in Mexico is about eating it. Flavour, while abstract, is a viable thing. It’s a multi-component result of somebody interacting with the chemical complexity of food or drink and the experiences then generated. But even being so complex, farms can have and do have a selective power in relationship to that. So we’ve been selecting for flavour for thousands of years in Mexico. When flavour is so important culturally, you care about that. You will not just forget about how delicious the soup your grandma used to be just because now we have a way of getting a lot more corn that doesn’t taste like that. What’s most important in Mexican whisky is flavour of the corn”. 

Q: A lot of people say the character of a whisky comes mostly from the cask…

A: “A good distiller will be trying to put corn first instead of wood. Wood is extraordinary, but that has been done to great success. We believe, at least it’s my style, that Mexican whisky’s identity will be separated by how the flavours of corn are presented. Wood is there to compliment. I utilise a process called nixtamalization, it’s extremely good not only with corn, but wheat, with barley, I’ve done experimentations and it generates interactions that are very unique that amplify and intensity of the flavour”.

Q: Should Mexican whisky have a legislative framework that ensures raw material regulation?

A: “I would like that the corn should always come from Mexico. It would be not nice if people made Mexican corn whiskey and the corn didn’t come from Mexico. Other than that, I’m a liberal. A corn whiskey is usually at least 80% corn and it should be made in Mexico. But I think everybody is entitled to explore and experiment with what they want to do”.

Q: Is flavour or culture the means by which you hope to introduce people to the world of Sotol?

“Sotol is one of the most extraordinary products sensorially speaking in the world. We feel proud to be presenting this to the world. The really large companies will not get into a business like Sotol and the small companies will have trouble because it’s an expensive product. We want to develop Nocheluna Sotol successfully and sustainability. We are domesticating the plant which has never been domesticated before with research from the University of Chihuahua in the largest commercial plantation for the first time. If you just use the sotol that is wild without an agronomical plan there is going to be a problem eventually”. 

Q: The involvement of Lenny Kravitz might shine quite a spotlight on Nocheluna Sotol.

A: “Lenny Kravitz was my partner and is an extraordinary person who believes and invests in authenticity. He could have done a Champagne or a vodka or a Tequila. In the end, he was passionate about what this product was historically, and culturally, and how it tastes. Telling the unknown stories. The secrets. These partnerships suit everybody. It serves people like Lenny or Lewis because they can see a part of who they are, a reflection of the value and commitments they have in their way of living. But they give us an opportunity to reach more people, at least at the awareness level. You really have to taste it, but that awareness can open the door for curiosity. 

Q: Can Nocheluna Sotol change things for the category?

A: “Exactly how this develops, we don’t know. But for sure it’s more difficult than playing in an already exciting category. So for Alma Finca, while this is a very different orange liqueur, everybody uses an orange liqueur so this has been selling very well. But that’s the beauty of Casa Lumbre. It has motivations beyond what is commercial, it’s not that we are against it. We want to see Nocheluna succeed. But we understand that some goals are short-term and some are in the medium or long term. As a company, we are based on multiple approaches to bringing great Mexican drinks and Mexican experiences”. 

A spotlight on Casa Lumbre products

We’ll round things off with a quick review of two of the more recent Casa Lumbre innovations, Nocheluna Sotol and Alma Finca Orange Liqueur. 

Nocheluna Sotol

Nocheluna is a collaboration not only backed by Lenny Kravitz but is also produced with fourth-generation Maestro Vinatero, Don Eduardo Arrieta (Don Lalo) as well as Dr Ivan Saldaña in Aldama, Chihuahua. Sustainably managed wild Dasylirion (known as sotol in Mexico, hence the name) is harvested after 12-15 years of growth and then cooked in an underground pit lined with river stones. The cooked sotol is crushed using a mechanical shredder (not the kind Kravitz is) and naturally fermented for 5-10 days. Finally, it is double distilled in copper pots fuelled by direct fire. Since 2019, the company has invested in growing sotol populations through responsible plant cultivation in existing and new ranches, planting more than 850,000 sotols in 2022.

Nocheluna Sotol review

Nose: Fresh and full of herbaceousness and grassy notes with eucalyptus, spearmint, forest floor, and rosemary. Underneath there’s cola bottles, waxy orange skin, clove, and a little cream soda creating a complex, aromatic sweetness. 

Palate: Soft and round on the palate, with more herbs and spices as well as green olives, sandalwood, caramel, wet rocks, honey, and zesty citrus.

Finish: Delicately sweet and with a lovely charred smokiness, like firewood, and a lingering minerality. 

Alma Finca Orange Liqueur

Alma Finca was developed by Dr Ivan Saldaña from fresh sweet and bitter orange peels, Persian lime leaves, and citrus blossoms, all sourced from Mexico’s Yucatán Peninsula. Harvested seasonally from October to December, they’re grown near Oxkutzcab (pronounced Ohsh-kootz-kahb) by a cooperative of local farmers using traditional methods. Each ingredient undergoes a five-day maceration in alcohol before being blended with sugar and water to create a very different kind of orange liqueur. No additives or artificial flavourings are used. The name Alma Finca combines the Spanish words for “Soul” (Alma) and “Estate” (Finca), a nod to the Yucatán Peninsula’s vibrant landscapes, culinary heritage, and rich history.

Alma Finca review

Nose: Jaffa cakes, linen, cracked black pepper, red chilli heat, fizzy orange sweets. 

Palate: Neat it’s very sweet and syrupy with lots of aromatic orange, some herbaceousness, and rich spice. Its higher alcohol content gives a Margarita a nice weight and the flavours come through crisp and clean. Very nice.

Finish: Sweet and citrusy once again.

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